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Obama’s Tortured Logic On Bagram

During his European trip, President Obama had this to say to the Turks:

He implored the Turks to embrace “an enduring commitment to the rule of law” as the “only way to achieve the security that comes from justice for all people.”

But it’s been do as we say, not as we do for far too long, hasn’t it?  From the motion filed Friday by the Obama administration:

…the President has established, by Executive Order, a deliberative process to address questions concerning Executive detention authority and options. The Task Force will be reviewing the processes currently in place at Bagram and elsewhere, and will make recommendations to the President regarding those processes. If this Court were to proceed with these cases during the pendency of the appeal, the Court would impose serious practical burdens on, and potential harm to, the Government and its efforts to prosecute the war in Afghanistan. Although in this Court’s view the burdens of litigating these habeas petitions are not insurmountable, there is no dispute that Bagram Airfield is in a theater of war where the Nation’s troops are in harm’s way….

The re-location of the defendant to a war zone does not negate the need for the rule of law and application of justice.

These are not mutually exclusive concepts, nor have they been in the years that we have operated under a military code of justice — from George Washington’s day forward.  Nor should they be.

As you can see from the YouTube above, candidate Obama understood the need for the rule of law, calling this sort of indefinite detention without lawful habeas checks and balances a "black hole."  Without a means to challenge detention — and habeas was such a sacred right to the Founders that they wrote it into the Constitution itself — how can an innocent prove that detention is unlawful?  Just ask the Uighurs how that’s worked for them.

It is the decisions made to uphold the rule of law in the tough times that show our character. We are still failing the test that Robert Jackson set forth at Nuremberg:

In a wiser past, we tried Nazi war criminals in the sunlight. Summing up for the prosecution at Nuremberg, Robert Jackson said that "the future will never have to ask, with misgiving: ‘What could the Nazis have said in their favor?’ History will know that whatever could be said, they were allowed to say. . . . The extraordinary fairness of these hearings is an attribute of our strength."

The world has never doubted the judgment at Nuremberg. But no one will trust the work of these secret tribunals.

Glenn has more. Much more. As does Digby.


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22 Responses to "Obama’s Tortured Logic On Bagram"
cbl2 | Tuesday April 14, 2009 08:29 am 1

I’ve run out of blogging time this am, I look forward to working through all your links later in the day.

but this excerpt, also from the speech to the Turkish Parliament stuck in my craw

Human endeavor is by its nature imperfect. History, unresolved, can be a heavy weight. Each country must work through its past. And reckoning with the past can help us seize a better future

have a great day ‘dogs !


Christy Hardin Smith | Tuesday April 14, 2009 08:47 am 2
In response to cbl2 @ 1

Yes, that’s a wee bit annoying, isn’t it? What with so many unresolved issues of our own just hanging out there in the ether…


frandor55 | Tuesday April 14, 2009 09:08 am 3

So if a “war zone” is to be exempt from habeas rights it probabaly means we will always need to have such a zone, kinda fits nicely into “perpetual war for perpetual peace”.

I am somewhat of two minds on the Obama DOJ stance, the first, and most logical, is that Obama does believe that having the “black hole” option for some humans scattered around the globe is necessary somehow.

The second is that he is in effect being blackmailed, as it were, by the national security state. Some deep dark secret that must be kept there at all costs. This option seems less likely but one has to give it as a possibility.


Leen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 09:09 am 4

Obama is losing ground when you start losing professors who worked their asses off for him. This is the second note in two days from Professor friends here at Ohio University

A note from a Professor Emeritus of sociology

“There are so many huge issues before us. I’m disappointed on Obama’s policies on the financial crisis (trillions involved here), global warming (worldwide and US emissions going up, less so because of economic contractions), and the Middle East (awful on Afghanistan, drones over Pakistan, not fast enough on Iran diplomacy, and very sad Israel-Palistine, ever more settlements, destruction of Gaza).

His administration has done some good things as well – stem cells, family planning, Cuba, some proposed weapons’ cuts (but increasing the overall military budget). His “stimulus” plan was undermined to some extent in Congress. It’s better than nothing but not nearly enough to much affect the rising unemployment rates, which are getting close to Depression levels when you count people who have given up looking for jobs and those who can only find part-time jobs. I would also guess that the media wage is falling.”

###He just sent me this article
US News Media Fails America, Again

by Robert Parry

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/04/14


Leen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 09:14 am 5

Christy “It is the decisions made to uphold the law in the tough times that show our character”

the truth can set us free on this one. No way to move forward without holding people accountable for changing the laws in regard to torture, lies about WMD’s, etc. No way to truly move forward without accountability.

Obama is falling through the cracks on this critical issue


frandor55 | Tuesday April 14, 2009 09:18 am 6
In response to Leen @ 4

Athens, Ohio in springtime (Ohio Univ), can be pretty nice, the foothills of the Appalachian Mtns. Twenty years ago I spent a year there, special place.


Leen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 09:46 am 7
In response to frandor55 @ 6

great spring, daffodils, magnolias, cherry blossoms, redbud, spring beauties, trillium, daffodils. Spring sprung! makes one smile


tjbs | Tuesday April 14, 2009 09:51 am 8

Christy,
Only traitors torture. Start Nuremburg 2.0 – American style.

Either the law is above us all equally or there is the rule of the jungle.
This is the bottom of the slippery slope of “authorization of the use of force”unending wars chasing undefined victories. We made it so you have to amend the constitution to change it. No act can over ride the the LAW as defined by our constitution unless we amend the constitution.
Congress shall declare war… Why ,…. Because we put our offenses in writing and the expected solution to be made whole as a nation. Then the citizens can judge how well the administration is completing those goals.

Our goals in Pakistan are what, judging by what?


Eureka Springs | Tuesday April 14, 2009 10:11 am 9

Much as I expected to be disappointed with a return to D power.. this just feels like a sucker gut punch every day.

What’s wrong with this man? He’s a war criminal now as far as I am concerned. I suppose the next line of questions should be, who are his Addingtons and Feith’s… and when the heck are they going to be fired?

Thank you, CHS… for staying on top of it.


oldtree | Tuesday April 14, 2009 10:15 am 10

that line that cbl2 refers, almost sounds like his vaporizing the Armenian problem without mentioning it.
Things don’t look very good for freedom when Obama continues the absurd rhetoric of democracy and then signs the order to eliminate it. Both get press coverage, both are sighed about as history revises us into non existence. Move along.


Teddy Partridge | Tuesday April 14, 2009 11:32 am 11

Non-habeas zones are just an extension of free-speech zones.

No executive ever gives back power, no matter how illegitimately obtained. Clawing for more powers is what Presidents do. Although I had hope this one would be different, I guess I’m not surprised.


JoeBuck | Tuesday April 14, 2009 11:42 am 12

Obama needs to go back to doing things right. If someone’s captured in Afghanistan then that person is presumed to be a POW and is treated like one. If he is thought to be an illegal combatant, the issue is decided by a trial, not the say-so of the President. The Geneva Conventions allow this to be a military trial, but if it is, then the defendant is supposed to have the same rights that a US soldier would receive and the trial’s supposed to follow the same rules. Alternatively, there’s a government in Afghanistan and an Afghan captured there can be handed to them, provided that there are safeguards in place (that we aren’t handing someone over to be tortured).

But the Geneva Conventions, as far as I know, don’t even consider the possibility that a non-Afghan can be captured in a completely different country and then moved to Bagram, with no recourse at all.


selise | Tuesday April 14, 2009 11:50 am 13

thanks christy. i don’t think this is tortured logic though – i think it the deception of campaign rhetoric vs actions. ie lies.

the obama campaign was chosen as the best marketing campaign of the year and i think it may very well have been. we were sold a product. for all we know, the real thing has as little to do with the marketing hype as any other advertising campaign.

so sad. i didn’t support obama after his actions re fisa, but this worse, much worse than i expected. so very sad.


mstar57 | Tuesday April 14, 2009 12:30 pm 14

THANK YOU SPAIN!!! Obama and the rest of his criminal cartel, including Summers, Geittner, Holder, Panetta, Pelosi (impeachment is off the table) are absolutely PATHETIC, SCUMBAGS of the highest order!! Constitutional lawyer my ass!! – He doesn’t even know what the Constitution is !!! No way in the world will I ever support that mother****er unless he does the right thing – you know – uphold the rule of law and defend the Constitution!! Didn’t he take an oath to that effect??


mui1 | Tuesday April 14, 2009 01:10 pm 15

Arrest someone in one country, take them to another country, and never let them challenge being held.
I know there’s a term for that. *scrathching head*
1@cbl2 The turkish speech stuck in my craw as well. Addressing Turks and the “muslim” world” simultaneously seems a little too . . . je ne sais quoi . . . “you people”.
And when are they going to release the Uighurs? And other cases like them?


selise | Tuesday April 14, 2009 01:17 pm 16

MadDog | Tuesday April 14, 2009 04:52 pm 17

Totally OT, and because Christy always brings a ray of sunshine into our lives, here’s a favor returned, and that, merely a downpayment:

By way of Andrew Sullivan:

Cheer Yourself Up

A 47 year old homely matron shows up on Britain’s Got Talent … Seriously, I’m still choked up.

And as one of Andrew’s readers writes:

I watched Susan Boyle over and over today. I’m so moved by it… her voice is simply beautiful, of course, but she owned that stage. She knew she belonged there – where the hell did that assurance come from?

I looked up her story: she was bullied terribly as a child, had or has a disability, has never been married, never been kissed, probably never been somebody’s most important person. After all that, and having just come out of serious depression on her mother’s death, what on earth gives her the confidence to get up there on the stage? Where did she find that courage?

Simply marvelous!


Leen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 05:18 pm 18

On torture on Chris Matthews Hardball tonight (the clip is not up at the site yet)

when the clip of the Chris Matthews, Frank Gaffney, David Corn wrestling match on Spain’s right to go after the Bush 6 comes up you are going to want to hear this one. This one will be all over the blogs tomorrow

rip roaring


Leen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 05:26 pm 19

Christy here it is
go to the spain clip
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036697/#30215925

They really went at it


Leen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 05:46 pm 20
In response to Leen @ 19

David Corn to Gaffney “Frank we’re you against the Nuremberg Trials”

You go David

Matthews blew a fuse ya hoo

Chris Matthews ” my view, well my view is o.k. let me tell you my view of this Frank buddy I’ll tell you my view of this. We crossed that line in that West Point speech by President Bush George W. Bush up there in 2002 when he said we are going to go into other countries and kick ass because they do not have democracies in those countries that’s when he said we’re going to go kill
people internationally because we do not like their form of government that’s when we crossed the line Frank”


DrZen | Tuesday April 14, 2009 06:35 pm 21

selise is right. He hopes to heal America’s image with bullshit. “Each country must work through its past” is really pushing it though, given that he’s said he doesn’t want to do exactly that.


SunnyNobility | Tuesday April 14, 2009 07:02 pm 22

Insulting our intelligence and intentionally sowing confusion. Despicable.

An old southern expression: all them smiles and dimples don’t count for nothin’…..


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