Comments on: Spreading Out The Big Shitpile http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/ Dip your toe in the legal waters and change politics as you know it. http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com Sun, 25 Oct 2009 22:06:02 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: tejanarusa http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4290 tejanarusa Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:00:00 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4290 <p>hunh. Just saw the last posts above my last one -</p> <p>Guessing Synoia doesn’t know you ARE a lawyer.</p> <p>Best life lesson from law school/bar exams:</p> <p>Examine and recognize your assumptions before you write/speak/pass judgment.</p> hunh. Just saw the last posts above my last one -

Guessing Synoia doesn’t know you ARE a lawyer.

Best life lesson from law school/bar exams:

Examine and recognize your assumptions before you write/speak/pass judgment.

]]> By: tejanarusa http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4288 tejanarusa Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:57:51 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4288 <p>So right. I have annoyed many a sales person with my insistence on reading before signing, and taking my time.<br /> Many seem to find it amazing that anyone would want to read first.</p> <p>Oh, and dont get me started on the apparently standard practice (whether receiving schedule 1 Rx’s or making a retail return for refund) of handing you the acknowledgment that you “have received xxxxx and it is in good condition/as stated/whatever” BEFORE they will give you the item you are swearing you hve already received. Grrrrr.</p> So right. I have annoyed many a sales person with my insistence on reading before signing, and taking my time.
Many seem to find it amazing that anyone would want to read first.

Oh, and dont get me started on the apparently standard practice (whether receiving schedule 1 Rx’s or making a retail return for refund) of handing you the acknowledgment that you “have received xxxxx and it is in good condition/as stated/whatever” BEFORE they will give you the item you are swearing you hve already received. Grrrrr.

]]> By: Christy Hardin Smith http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4282 Christy Hardin Smith Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:53:10 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4282 <p>I’ve got <a href="http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/open-questions-truth-commissions-accountability-and-immunity/#comment" rel="nofollow">a fresh post up top</a> on today’s Judiciary hearing and something that Sen. Whitehouse said about immunity for the law wonks out there…</p> I’ve got a fresh post up top on today’s Judiciary hearing and something that Sen. Whitehouse said about immunity for the law wonks out there…

]]> By: Christy Hardin Smith http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4280 Christy Hardin Smith Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:51:39 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4280 <p>No need to get snippy — if you had bothered to read down a bit further, you’d see that oldgold and I discussed just that issue along with eCAHN. And I’ve not only signed loan docs, I’ve gone over them on behalf of clients, so I know full well how poorly drafted and deliberately crafted they can be on just those issues.</p> <p>Hence the warning to read and understand prior to signing anything, for future reference.</p> No need to get snippy — if you had bothered to read down a bit further, you’d see that oldgold and I discussed just that issue along with eCAHN. And I’ve not only signed loan docs, I’ve gone over them on behalf of clients, so I know full well how poorly drafted and deliberately crafted they can be on just those issues.

Hence the warning to read and understand prior to signing anything, for future reference.

]]> By: Synoia http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4268 Synoia Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:33:03 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4268 <p>You never signed loan docs then. 90 pages, which nobody can explain.</p> <p>To those in foreclosure</p> <p>Get a lawyer. Demand the note and all paperwork.</p> You never signed loan docs then. 90 pages, which nobody can explain.

To those in foreclosure

Get a lawyer. Demand the note and all paperwork.

]]> By: sunshine http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4267 sunshine Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:17:42 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4267 <p>It’s almost as though they thought they’d ALL get away with it. What were they thinking? Did they really think they’s get their permanent republican majority through voter fraud? The crowds Obama attracted were too large for them to pull that off this time.</p> It’s almost as though they thought they’d ALL get away with it. What were they thinking? Did they really think they’s get their permanent republican majority through voter fraud? The crowds Obama attracted were too large for them to pull that off this time.

]]> By: Ann in AZ http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4266 Ann in AZ Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:13:54 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4266 <p>Boy, I hate to say this, and I don’t know how I could possibly put up a good defense in 25 words or less, but I don’t agree with several of your premises. I must tell you, Countrywide either holds or services my mortgage. Here’s the thing: they were not the original lender. My original predatory lender sold my loan to Countrywide on the secondary mortgage market. Countrywide acquired many loans that way. They may have been involved in some predatory lending of their own too. I just know that I worked my way out of the predatory loan that I made by good luck and good timing, and little more. So when I see folks losing their homes, I always feel, there but for the grace of god go I. Also, as a realtor with lots of real estate research experience, I can tell you that the country just can’t really stand the steep decline in housing values for much longer. </p> <p>Therefore, I don’t have quite the righteous indignation that you are experiencing about knowing that these mortgage execs are now working to turn their market back around and put a floor in the housing market. Lenders do workouts all the time; if you think these workouts are strange, you should see what goes on in the commercial real estate market, or workouts involving developers (yes, even Trump. In fact, he probably drives an even harder bargain.) </p> <p>The truth is, the properties that are being renegotiated at a fraction of the current balance of the original loan have realistically already lost a large percent of their value due to the collapse of the market. That collapse was the point at which the real estate bubble burst and values have been in a steeply declining spiral ever since. This was not the fault of the buyers, some of whom were extremely under-informed to the point of naivete about the real estate market. IMO, the lenders should have foreseen the bubble, the aftermath of the bubble, and the consequences to the bad loans they were producing, but there was a feeding frenzy going on, and their goal was the fees, not the roi (return on investment) of the loans. In any case, to do the workouts that keep the owners in their homes and lower the basis of the loan to current market values (which is what the lender would have to do anyway if they foreclosed, except they’d have the added risk of an empty house with costs piling on every day from maintenance, management, taxes and insurance) requires expertise from people who know the market. I think 20% is a little high, but keep in mind, they are being paid for their expertise and I wouldn’t think much of their expertise if they couldn’t negotiate themselves into an enviable position. I don’t begrudge them; I thank them. If folks are prepared to face reality and turn some lemons into lemonade, I don’t begrudge them.</p> Boy, I hate to say this, and I don’t know how I could possibly put up a good defense in 25 words or less, but I don’t agree with several of your premises. I must tell you, Countrywide either holds or services my mortgage. Here’s the thing: they were not the original lender. My original predatory lender sold my loan to Countrywide on the secondary mortgage market. Countrywide acquired many loans that way. They may have been involved in some predatory lending of their own too. I just know that I worked my way out of the predatory loan that I made by good luck and good timing, and little more. So when I see folks losing their homes, I always feel, there but for the grace of god go I. Also, as a realtor with lots of real estate research experience, I can tell you that the country just can’t really stand the steep decline in housing values for much longer.

Therefore, I don’t have quite the righteous indignation that you are experiencing about knowing that these mortgage execs are now working to turn their market back around and put a floor in the housing market. Lenders do workouts all the time; if you think these workouts are strange, you should see what goes on in the commercial real estate market, or workouts involving developers (yes, even Trump. In fact, he probably drives an even harder bargain.)

The truth is, the properties that are being renegotiated at a fraction of the current balance of the original loan have realistically already lost a large percent of their value due to the collapse of the market. That collapse was the point at which the real estate bubble burst and values have been in a steeply declining spiral ever since. This was not the fault of the buyers, some of whom were extremely under-informed to the point of naivete about the real estate market. IMO, the lenders should have foreseen the bubble, the aftermath of the bubble, and the consequences to the bad loans they were producing, but there was a feeding frenzy going on, and their goal was the fees, not the roi (return on investment) of the loans. In any case, to do the workouts that keep the owners in their homes and lower the basis of the loan to current market values (which is what the lender would have to do anyway if they foreclosed, except they’d have the added risk of an empty house with costs piling on every day from maintenance, management, taxes and insurance) requires expertise from people who know the market. I think 20% is a little high, but keep in mind, they are being paid for their expertise and I wouldn’t think much of their expertise if they couldn’t negotiate themselves into an enviable position. I don’t begrudge them; I thank them. If folks are prepared to face reality and turn some lemons into lemonade, I don’t begrudge them.

]]> By: sunshine http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4265 sunshine Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:13:01 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4265 <p>Reminds me of that old saying when there is no mafia the<strike> government</strike> corporations become the mafia.</p> Reminds me of that old saying when there is no mafia the government corporations become the mafia.

]]> By: plunger http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4264 plunger Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:10:00 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4264 <p>I kind of like the visual of “Countrywide” as an adjective to coincide with your headline. It’s such a gigantic shitpile, countrywide is how far you’d have to spread it just to get it down to a depth of a couple feet!</p> I kind of like the visual of “Countrywide” as an adjective to coincide with your headline. It’s such a gigantic shitpile, countrywide is how far you’d have to spread it just to get it down to a depth of a couple feet!

]]> By: sunshine http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4263 sunshine Wed, 04 Mar 2009 16:07:42 +0000 http://christyhardinsmith.firedoglake.com/2009/03/04/spreading-out-the-big-shitpile/#comment-4263 <p>Not to mention all those 3 + million lay offs many are sure to go from middle class to lower class with or without unemployment benefits.</p> Not to mention all those 3 + million lay offs many are sure to go from middle class to lower class with or without unemployment benefits.

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