Enough Politicized Economic Kabuki

The GOP is marketing retro.  Again.  Color me shocked.  Tim Pawlenty has strategery for the GOP: dress up old, tired hackery in shiny accessories:

“The Republican Party is going to have to adhere to its principles, because they are foundational and they are important. But they need to be presented in a hopeful, optimistic, up-tempo, modern, practical way, and that’s not what we have been doing recently,” Mr. Pawlenty said.

“We’ve become too petty and angry in many aspects,” he said. “That’s unappealing to swing voters.”

Oh sure, dress up the same old crap in buttons and bows.  (YouTube)  That’ll fly.

Missing from this?  Reality:  the American public at large isn’t swallowing the trickle up economic socialism (or "conservative philosophy") any longer. Nor does being trickled on from the middle class (or "non-yacht-owning classes") downward hold any allure. 

No amount of jazz hands and sparkly costumes makes "screw you, I got mine" palatable.

I’m especially fond of the "attack social security and medicare" crowd, proposing a series of cuts to programs they’ve been trying to dismantle since FDR’s day. Because that’s never been tried before.  Let’s be honest: that kabuki is shopworn.

And their numbers don’t add up:

Social Security’s accounts are actually near long-term balance. The Congressional Budget Office puts the 75-year shortfall at only about one-third of 1 percent of projected gross domestic product….

The decent cure for Medicare’s cost inflation lies in comprehensive universal health insurance so that the entire system is more efficient and less prone to inflation. You don’t hear many budget hawks supporting that brand of reform.

If you really want to get back to basics, might I suggest trying something that has proven to actually work?

The deficit hawks’ story also contends that we are sacrificing our children’s future by too much (deficit) spending on the elderly. In fact, today’s young adults are already falling out of the middle class because of the high costs of the investments we don’t adequately finance socially — child care, college tuition and health insurance. But fiscal conservatives seldom call for increased investment in the young. Today’s young, of course, will be tomorrow’s retirees, and they will need social insurance, too.

The overall bottom line? The economy we bequeath to our children has everything to do with getting growth back on track and almost nothing to do with imagined future deficits.

History provides a parallel. At the end of World War II, the public debt was about 120 percent of GDP — about three times today’s ratio. Yet the heavily indebted wartime economy stimulated a quarter-century postwar boom — because all that debt went to recapitalize American industry, advance science and technology, retrain our unemployed and put them to work.

How about we look at the long-term instead of trying yet another kabuki game wherein the object is to discredit government to prove your outmoded ideological pet point of the day? Swing voters don’t want new slogans, they want competence, courage and some can do action on their needs.  

Things are bad enough as it is.  Enough economic kabuki.  

 
129 Responses to "Enough Politicized Economic Kabuki"
Adie | Monday February 23, 2009 06:07 am 1

Hi Christy and Puppies. Good one!

Does Pawlenty know, there’s a perfectly acceptable word in the language, fundamental, which might serve as well as his preferred concoction, “foundational”.

Nah. Don’t tell ‘em. That’s how we know they’re pugs. Syllables to the max when in full battle dress, heh.


BooRadley | Monday February 23, 2009 06:09 am 2

Thanks Christy, digg is open.


Adie | Monday February 23, 2009 06:10 am 3
In response to Adie @ 1

Ya takes yer basic noun, add gobbletigook and, presto, verbize it, adjectivate to yer heart’s content…. Repubblespeak.


eCAHNomics | Monday February 23, 2009 06:11 am 4

I’m perfectly happy to let the Rs rush headlong into the dustbin of history.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 06:11 am 5

Aaaackkkk! The Timster pollutes the lake! My gov, right or wrong. And Timster? The foundational principle of your party is screw the pooch and eat whatever is left in its bowl. So really, your party is doing just fine.


SouthernDragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:12 am 6

Great graphic. I’m a sucker for Asian women.


Adie | Monday February 23, 2009 06:15 am 7
In response to eCAHNomics @ 4

exquisitely put.


eCAHNomics | Monday February 23, 2009 06:15 am 8
In response to SouthernDragon @ 6

I’m listening to Memoir of a Geisha.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:15 am 9
In response to SouthernDragon @ 6

I saw this picture and laughed my ass off — knew I had to use it. *G*


perris | Monday February 23, 2009 06:18 am 10

Social Security’s accounts are actually near long-term balance. The Congressional Budget Office puts the 75-year shortfall at only about one-third of 1 percent of projected gross domestic product….

The decent cure for Medicare’s cost inflation lies in comprehensive universal health insurance
so that the entire system is more efficient and less prone to inflation. You don’t hear many budget hawks supporting that brand of reform.

sure, we all want need universal health care but could someone please tell me why we aren’t trying to get back the money that was stolen borrowed from ss by reagan?

that money was “supposed” to be a loan, it was “supposed” to be returned with dividends

now, the money clinton “borrowed” actually DID return dividends and we were left with a surplus, however bush robbed those funds so the return was never realized

so at the very LEAST obama should be talking about getting back the funds that were stolen borrowed from ss by reagan, after that we can visit getting back the money borrowed by clinton too


mgardener | Monday February 23, 2009 06:18 am 11

When I saw that word “foundational”, I immediately thought that sarah palin has infected the whole gop with her made up words and word salad.

Reading your article it hit me that with this thinking the gop will continue to slide into obscurity. It’s appeal of less government and self reliance is not going to appeal to the next generation, who feels somewhat entitled.
I don’t mean that in a negative way, but the gop do nothing for anybody but the rich will not appeal to them. Nor will their reliance on oil and drill baby drill mentality.


Badwater | Monday February 23, 2009 06:19 am 12

The Republics are more of a religion than a political party. Believers rigidly adhere to Republic dogma no matter what. Recent results prove to them not that they were wrong, but that they didn’t practice their Republicanism true enough. If a member questions the dogma, Republics want to ban, not debate, that member.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:20 am 13
In response to mgardener @ 11

Read the first link in the post — it showcases a plethora of old dog, older tricks mentality from the likes of Gingrich, Norquist and their ilk who are driving the GOP agenda — or at least trying to appear like they are. It’s a fascinating psych study on trying to remake a has been into a shiny new toy…and failing miserably.


SouthernDragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:21 am 14
In response to Christy Hardin Smith @ 9

Really nice bright kimono. Great hand gestures, too. *g*


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:21 am 15

Mmmmmm….fresh pot of coffee and a bowl of warm cream of wheat with bananas and cinnamon in it. It’s good to be inside and out of the snow. How is everyone this morning?


Kassandra | Monday February 23, 2009 06:22 am 16

I’ve come to realize that the Republicans have stewed in their own juices for so long and made so much $$ for themselves and their friends that they just …can’t…..see any other way.(They exist in a sort of hive mind) To do so would mean they were (gasp) wrong about nearly everything. Human nature doesn’t allow for that very often; it would entail learning and, perhaps, a bit of humility.

“Screw you , I’ve got mine “…….words for the ages.
What about less is more? No? Well, that’s what we’re going to have to deal with. The Friedman acolytes made a BIG mistake turning their greed on America. Now , here comes “the grapes of wrath”

Capitalism is dead! Long live capitalism!


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 06:22 am 17
In response to Badwater @ 12

Which is why Pawlenty is speaking so carefully, frequently and charmingly. He finally announced this weekend that he’s running for president. Of the community sports association. And did I mention that he lives about a mile away from me? Ah, celebrity!


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:23 am 18
In response to Kassandra @ 16

The funny thing is that they see liberals exactly the same way.


SouthernDragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:23 am 19

Cream of Wheat or Wheatina?


plunger | Monday February 23, 2009 06:23 am 20

For those who are finally inclined to stop believing in coincidence theory, here’s a road map to the entire truth:

http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/3820


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:24 am 21
In response to SouthernDragon @ 19

It’s actually a 7-grain blend with some extra ground flaxseed thrown in for good measure. But saying “cream of wheat” is easier. *G*


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 06:25 am 22

Yum. Was heading for the Cheerios, but this reminds me that there’s Malt-o-Meal living out its shelf life behind closed cupboard doors. Re-discovered this product whilst casting about for things David could eat. Funny, because neither of us liked it as kids. Alternate with Cr of Wh. Which to do, which to do?


Jkat | Monday February 23, 2009 06:26 am 23

ha .. like the republicans have ever met a truth they could hug …


SouthernDragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:26 am 24

Got a name or homemade? Sounds yummy.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 06:28 am 25
In response to Kassandra @ 16

“Screw you , I’ve got mine and now I want yours”

fixed it for ya


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:28 am 26
In response to SouthernDragon @ 24

Mine’s a homemade blend this morning, but Bob’s Red Mill makes a great 7-grain and 10-grain both. And I just add some extra ground flaxseed to them when I cook for the omega-3 benefits.


SouthernDragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:28 am 27
In response to barbara @ 22

Wheatena beats anything not sold in natural foods stores.


SouthernDragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:29 am 28

Bob’s Red Mill makes great products. I like the 10-grain best.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:31 am 29
In response to SouthernDragon @ 28

I’ve been trying to incorporate more whole grains, and especially adding a bit of ground flaxseed where I can. The fiber is good for me, but the added B vitamins from the wheat germ and the omega-3s from the flaxseed help with my lupus issues. Every little bit… *g*


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 06:32 am 30

Funny, I just read SD right as I was about to say that picture sort of makes me gag….She needs her mother to tell her to act right. ;)


Petrocelli | Monday February 23, 2009 06:32 am 31

Oh Noes … The Repugs are Turning Japanesa

G’Morning Christy & FDLers


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:33 am 32

btw, this is what I’m talking about with the “marketing retro” link above — because clearly nothing’s changed since 1994 (insert eye roll here). Note how it is all about the GOP and power — just like that Boehner nonsense from The Homestead — and nothing whatsoever to do with the American public, bunch of selfish goobers:

Republicans are hatching a political comeback by dusting off a strategic playbook written nearly two decades ago.

Its themes: Unite against Democrats’ economic policy, block and counter health care reform and tar them with spending scandals.

Those represent the political trifecta that former House Speaker Newt Gingrich bet on in 1994 to produce a historic Republican takeover of Congress.

Now, some Republicans believe President Barack Obama’s one-two push on the economy and health care reform is setting the stage for a new round of significant gains, if not a total takeover.

“There are two models that Republicans are looking at,” said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform.

“One is 1990, [President George H.W.] Bush gets together with the Democrats at Andrews Air Force Base, raises taxes and loses the next election,” he explained. “The other is 1993, Democrats have a series of proposals to spend and tax. Republicans vote no and regain the House and Senate.”


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:34 am 33
In response to Petrocelli @ 31

Oh my — haven’t heard that one in ages!


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:35 am 34
In response to barbara @ 25

Perhaps this is even more accurate?

“Screw you , I’ve got mine. Now hand me yours and realize it’s my due.”


Bluetoe2 | Monday February 23, 2009 06:35 am 35

It’s time for the fat cats and aristocrats to accept trickle up socialism. The handwritting is on the wall and they will find that they will be just fine. The rich always are.


Petrocelli | Monday February 23, 2009 06:36 am 36

We’re about due for one of your ’80’s Party soon …


Lindy | Monday February 23, 2009 06:37 am 37

“mornin”, she mumbled.


Millineryman | Monday February 23, 2009 06:38 am 38

Good morning all.

Maypo here with and nice cup of Ethiopian. I just couldn’t resit when I saw the box and the cartoon cowboy. It is whole grain and a little fun.


perris | Monday February 23, 2009 06:38 am 39
In response to Adie @ 3

if he owned a thesuarus he could have come up with quite a few words that would have been wonderful;

profound

central

cardinal

underlying

rudimentary

there are more, someone should send him a thesaurus


Petrocelli | Monday February 23, 2009 06:39 am 40

If the approval ratings after the Stimulus Bill are any indication, the Repugs will plunge to their doom, with the Boners, Jindals & Palins leading the charge over the cliff.


Japandrew | Monday February 23, 2009 06:40 am 41

At some point all the “WWII spending got us out of the Depression” analogies are going to focus some minds on the real meaning of military expenditures. Building weapons and blowing things up on a massive scale is in some horrific and primitive sense stimulative, as are the spin-offs from the technology developed in war efforts. But what if we started using our still enormous resources to make and provide things people actually need? Like schools and healthcare. The knock-on effects of that kind of spending when you have a huge infrastructure deficit will hopefully become clear soon. And then we can bid buried to the republican conservative ideology.


Petrocelli | Monday February 23, 2009 06:40 am 42
In response to Lindy @ 37

((( Lindy )))

I’ve got Coffee with Bailey’s … care for some ? *g*


Prairie Sunshine | Monday February 23, 2009 06:41 am 43

As I mentioned in Swim, Imus was asking Frank Rich if the public has lost faith in the government. This is the meme the Party of No is pushing all over the place as a substitute for “losing faith in Obama”; I expect to see it being really ramped up from the Santellis to the Newts.

[and didn’t Santelli’s rant remind you of that ol’ commercial with the black hand taking the check away from the white hand?]

Mr. Sunshine nailed it: the public has not lost faith in government, they’ve lost faith in the institutions of the private sector…


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:44 am 44
In response to Prairie Sunshine @ 43

I’ve always wondered if so much of the perceived incompetence such as the decimation of FEMA and other things the last few years haven’t been deliberate outgrowths of “starve government to show it’s inability to function.’ When what it really showed to me was that conservative government starvation models make us less safe, less functional and less well governed.

Ugh.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:45 am 45
In response to Japandrew @ 41

Imagine just fixing infrastructure and school building problems, and the jobs and long-term benefits just from that.


Adie | Monday February 23, 2009 06:45 am 46
In response to perris @ 39

he can git his own. earn it like us regular folk.


Prairie Sunshine | Monday February 23, 2009 06:46 am 47

Exactly.

And totally OT, but I had a really blissful weekend when I realized that once that gate’s up on Bushie’s street, it keeps the world out…but it can work in reverse, too. His own private Gitmo….


Lindy | Monday February 23, 2009 06:49 am 48

Here’s a view of St. Charles Av. yesterday from the point of view of a (relatively) short person. It’s wall-to-wall people out there…and while it got a bit drunk out, it was all good.


eCAHNomics | Monday February 23, 2009 06:49 am 49

Once again, Josh has a good take on it:

The GOP wants to party like it’s 1993.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:50 am 50
In response to Lindy @ 48

Glad y’all have gotten a crowd this year. Hello tourist dollars…


prostratedragon | Monday February 23, 2009 06:51 am 51

My, my, proportionately that might be the longest instructional digit I’ve ever seen.

Striking how efficacy in solving some national problem is just not part of the GOP objective criteria. “It won us an election, what more do you need?”


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 06:52 am 52

History provides a parallel. At the end of World War II, the public debt was about 120 percent of GDP — about three times today’s ratio. Yet the heavily indebted wartime economy stimulated a quarter-century postwar boom — because all that debt went to recapitalize American industry, advance science and technology, retrain our unemployed and put them to work.

We need to increase public spending and debt now to restore economic growth and then gradually reduce the debt ratio once recovery comes. Social Security has little to do with this challenge. Nor does Medicare, if we reform our overall health system.

(NYT’s)

My 16-year-old son just wrote a paper on FDR. He pretty much stated this in the conclusion of his paper (not to mention, wrote a nice section on Social Security being of enduring design and that health care is the problem).

If a sixteen-year-old can figure “it” out, my hope is the President and Congress can to. Perhaps Obama should hire my young man?


Lindy | Monday February 23, 2009 06:52 am 53

Sorry. Wasn’t trying to hijack the thread, which I just read. On-point and sensible, Christy. Digging.


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 06:52 am 54

I think starvation was definitely a plan, ex. EPA, FDA, along with FEMA, let alone Justice and more. Put in the most incompetent who do not even want to pursue the mission & goals of the agency. Thinking about how fast Christine Whitman was out of there at a time with the EPA had been doing quite well. I may not live long enough to see alot of W’s damage repaired. I like to think that Pres. Obama will be just the man for the job; we need to support him in every way possible, even when we think he may not be doing enough. His task is daunting with opposition undermining and attacking at every (or no) opportunity. Saw preview this morning for Media Malpractice that is going to enhance Palin and gin up the theme that the media adores and magnifies Obama. Gag now.


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 06:53 am 55
In response to klynn @ 52

“can too…”


Bluetoe2 | Monday February 23, 2009 06:54 am 56

I think it’s merely benign neglect. Republicans will always see the private sector as taking precedent over the public sector in providing for the common good i.e. the common good of the wealthy and well connected.


perris | Monday February 23, 2009 06:55 am 57

so why aren’t any of the democrats talking about getting the money back that reagan borrowed from social security?


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 06:56 am 58
In response to Lindy @ 48

My friend sent me a King Kake. Im going to take it for a meeting at work, so we will be among you (But not Shouting, Throw Me Something.) I actually became pretty distant from MG when a very old woman shoved my daughter on St Charles Ave. so she could get the Doubloon that we were not even trying to get! Nothing like a crazed, old lady at MG….;)


JClausen | Monday February 23, 2009 06:56 am 59

Bwhaahaahaa! OT excuse me.

I just saw a Today Show segment about how mean the MSM was on poor Sarah Palin. Matt Lauer put this Republican Hack into wingnut apoplexy when he challenged him.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 06:56 am 60

Thanks for all the diggs gang!


Millineryman | Monday February 23, 2009 06:57 am 61

My independent Republican leaning brother is done with Republicans. He does have a problem with over regulation however he now sees the extent to which the conservative policies have destroyed the economy. He’s a small businessman and he supports Obama 100%.


Bluetoe2 | Monday February 23, 2009 06:59 am 62
In response to Millineryman @ 61

Hoping there are many more epiphanies for those who have bought into the Republican smoke and mirrors.


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 06:59 am 63
In response to JClausen @ 59

YEP: And the more corrosive claim that the media adores and supports everything about Obama. Matt did a good job.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:00 am 64
In response to Millineryman @ 38

Maypo. OMG. Didn’t know it’s still around. And for fibrous flax-on-the-shelf, don’t be forgetting Red River. Someone once told me you eat it and the little flaxlets swim for the sea. True enough. *g*


Bluetoe2 | Monday February 23, 2009 07:01 am 65
In response to barbara @ 64

“Where’s my Maypo?”


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:02 am 66

No kidding. Makes me shiver. (I’m re-reading Prayer for Owen Meany.)


otchmoson | Monday February 23, 2009 07:05 am 67

Did anyone watch C-span governor’s meeting yesterday? Healthcare speakers were Rep. Dingell and former HHS Sec. Leavitt. The takeaway: Dingell doesn’t care “whether it’s a white cat or a black cat . . . just so long as it catches mice.” OTH, Leavitt thought the solution to our current healthcare crisis could be remedied by tweaking Medicare a bit . . . leave private healthcare alone . . . and the market will take care of itself. After all, look at that wonderful Medicare Part D . . . seniors now have a host of (supplemental) plans to choose from . . . they can choose what best fits their needs . . . it’s all so easy to understand (we help them decipher the gobbledygook). And besides . . . didn’t that “no competition” prescription benefit help them all!

Leavitt–without shouting “free enterprise” ultimately (IMO) undermined single-payer, universal. Those governors without the ’smarts’ to question his motives and ideology will probably opt for a tweak here and there . . . same ol’ same ol’.


demi | Monday February 23, 2009 07:06 am 68
In response to barbara @ 66

Oh, I loved that one.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:06 am 69
In response to RevBev @ 58

Well, unless it’s this crazed old lady at FDL. *g*


perris | Monday February 23, 2009 07:07 am 70
In response to Millineryman @ 61

He does have a problem with over regulation

there’s the thing mill, we ALL have a problem with “over regulation”

but that’s a canard, regulation is almost always self inflicted by the industry themselves, when they refuse to pay their own bills we are usually forced into regulating them

regulations are almost always give a positive return, however there are times when they give a negative return

those negative return regulations are “over regulation”

we don’t toss out all regulation to address those few situtations, we revisit regulations when the industry can prove they have addressed the issue

that’s the way democrats need to frame the debate, that democrats are FOR deregulation, so long as the regulation is counter productive to US, counter productive to the industry is not our concern unless the industry will fail unless we deregulate

then we weigh the cost/benefit of deregulation, but even then we do NOT eliminate regulation pall mall we edit and revise


Millineryman | Monday February 23, 2009 07:07 am 71
In response to barbara @ 64

Indeed it is. I was like a little kid when I saw it on the shelf. And whole grain but it’s rolled oats so it cooks quickly.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 07:07 am 72
In response to otchmoson @ 67

Never mind that so many seniors have fallen into the Part D donut hole and can’t get up…


ironranger | Monday February 23, 2009 07:07 am 73

I wonder if Tim “Heathers” Pawlenty read the Sunday Mpls Tribune yesterday. Some good reading for a change.
In the Opinion section, Lori Sturdevant wrote about the legislature’s state budget listening sessions that began Thurs. Rochester Community College president, Don Supalla said he’s not afraid to cut costs but begged that his students, overloaded with off-campus work & debt, be spared from increase in intuition that is already 2nd highest in nation among 2 yr colleges. “This is not the Minnesota way”, he said, “Minnesotans have always viewed higher education as a public good & an investment in the future”.
A listening session on the Iron Range Friday was attended by about 400 people, another overflow crowd. Rep Rukavina said, “We are hearing there needs to be a combination of more revenue & some cuts. They don’t want the budget balanced on the backs of the most vulnerable in the state”.


Redshift | Monday February 23, 2009 07:08 am 74
In response to Prairie Sunshine @ 47

Heh. That reminds me of when we visited Talinn, Estonia. The medieval city of Talinn is on top of a hill, and the later merchant city grew around it (like many other places.) However, an unusual feature is that on the surviving wall around the medieval city, the gate opens from the outside. This is because some of the nobles who lived there used to come out and make trouble amongst the “lesser” people below, until the merchant princes built the gate — it’s made so that they could lock the nobles in at night and prevent them from causing trouble.

Maybe we could take a lesson from that here…


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 07:10 am 75

Christy,

I was at a home show this weekend. One of the demonstrators made an off-the-cuff comment that sounded like a “Rush L.” talking point. I challenged the presenter and asked why the comment was made? There was no coherent reason. I shared how her comment didn’t help stir people to positive action for building a stringer country. Heads snapped in our direction when I said that. This opened the door for me to talk about the civic duty to speak with responsible concern and action when discussing the economy in public and said, “Let me demonstrate.” As I said, “Let me demonstrate,” a group gathered. I outlined the problems with the economy and gave sound reasons for what needs to happen (based on my readings here and P. Krugman). I asked the presenter to back her statements with facts and history. She could not. I then got to the real reason for her repeating talking points from Rush. Her husband just lost his government job with the state. I was deeply concerned at her loss and suggested that she and her husband shut off Rush and start learning about working solutions that will possibly create job stimulus from which her husband may benefit.

Everyone listening agreed. Many nodded and said that turning off Rush and turning on Krugman would be a better state of mind when taking action as a citizen on the economy.

One of the listeners offered his business card and said he may be able to assist her husband.

Moral of the story: we have a responsibility to correct the lies and hate coming out of RushL’s mouth. He is hurting the country.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:11 am 76
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 65

From the era of Ovaltine and Bosco?


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:12 am 77
In response to barbara @ 69

But I am guessing you do not shove small children…nor does this crazed old lady;)


Petrocelli | Monday February 23, 2009 07:12 am 78
In response to klynn @ 75

Bravo Klynn !

Rush wants to keep people uninformed and angry because that’s how he maintains a base.


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 07:12 am 79
In response to klynn @ 75

more coffee…

“stringer country. ” Should be, ” stronger country.”


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:13 am 80

Plus the prices are outrageous and no one really understands the system. Really great for old folks ;) Yes, snark.


oldgold | Monday February 23, 2009 07:13 am 81

You folks are lucky on your breakfast choices. Damn near every morning I have to eat crow.


sadlyyes | Monday February 23, 2009 07:13 am 82

i Lurrrrrrrrrrrrrve that stuff


Bluetoe2 | Monday February 23, 2009 07:14 am 83
In response to klynn @ 75

Brilliant!


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:15 am 84

Ya know, that is one of the more puzzling (she said politely) health care developments of modern time. I first encountered it with my brother’s SS/Medicare. Turns out it’s even more insidious than it looks, because what brings someone to the donut hole is total cost of meds (NOT just what individual pays out of pocket but also that which insurance covered along the way). And what gets one through the donut hole is only that which is their out-of-pocket expenditures.

I am picturing a group of Part D planners sitting around a table, getting royally shit-faced, and saying things like, “Wait, wait! Here’s an idea! What if we…” followed by raucous laughter.


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:16 am 85
In response to oldgold @ 81

Me, too. What’s your brand? Is it good for the soul?


Redshift | Monday February 23, 2009 07:16 am 86
In response to otchmoson @ 67

I think there’s an opening there — Medicare Part D did indeed produce lots of “plans” to choose from, but the goal is to produce coverage, not “plans.” More plans is not a sign of success, it’s a sign that insurance companies see a gold rush.

More to the point, everyone hates Medicare Part D, and there are few who don’t know that. Anyone who points to that as the model of how our entire healthcare system should work is digging their own grave, policy-wise.


Millineryman | Monday February 23, 2009 07:16 am 87
In response to perris @ 70

A careful balance is needed. Extremes in any direction don’t serve the public in any way. If you don’t have enough regulations in place to keep the playing field level and protect the public, then one of the functions of goverment fail.

If you over regulate to the point where you strangle business and lifestyle then that a failure also IMHO.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:16 am 88
In response to oldgold @ 81

Aw, honey! *g*


Petrocelli | Monday February 23, 2009 07:16 am 89
In response to oldgold @ 81

LOL !!!


otchmoson | Monday February 23, 2009 07:16 am 90

Demanding that seniors–who already ‘feel’ vulnerable–must sort through mounds of paperwork, digest peer-advocates who assure them that a ’supplemental’ policy is essential, and try to deal with ill-informed bureaucrats is appalling. I suppose what was eye-opening for me was the ’slickness’ of Leavitt–he never overtly (screaming) touted free-market talking points. But the ease with which he advocated ‘tweaking’ Medicare–with the assurance that the (private) market would follow suit . . . competition would result in lower prices, and all would be right with the world–was a reminder of how well subtlety works in persuasive discourse.


Millineryman | Monday February 23, 2009 07:17 am 91
In response to Bluetoe2 @ 65

“I want my Maypo”, which is what the box says now.


cbl2 | Monday February 23, 2009 07:18 am 92
In response to klynn @ 75

Bravo Firedog !!!


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:19 am 93

Amen to that!!


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:20 am 94
In response to otchmoson @ 90

Could you tell if he actually believed what he was saying? It takes advanced degree in something to compare plans…even AARP is little help. This is the perfect ex. for the W’s screwing up something worthwhile. They benefited the drug co. as we all know. But the shear complexity and irrationality of the coverage and they system should be illegal/redone.


Redshift | Monday February 23, 2009 07:24 am 95
In response to Millineryman @ 87

I’ve found pointing out that “the game doesn’t work without referees” is an analogy that’s very effective with people who’ve absorbed the whole “the free market is always better” common wisdom by osmosis, but aren’t doctrinaire market-worshippers. It immediately makes sense, and it gets across that the choice isn’t between people who want a free market and people who want regulation for the sake of regulation, it’s between people who think the market will do great things without any significant regulation and people who know that regulation is necessary for a free market to exist at all.


ironranger | Monday February 23, 2009 07:24 am 96

My mouth dropped open when I first heard the R spin warning that Dem’s health care proposals would mean that Gov’t would get between you & your doctor deciding treatment. The health insurance providers are doing that now but no outrage from the R’s there.


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 07:25 am 97

Petrocelli, Bluetoe2 and cbl2,

Thanks so much.

What was powerful about the moment was it’s lasting effect. I had people bring family and friends to me saying, “Here’s the lady who was talking about the economy. Please talk to my friend…”

People kept seeking me out to learn more.

People want to hear common sense and what I like to call ” the simplicity of reality.” Not hate and divisive talk. When put in the proper context, people understood that more spending will need to happen and that the spending that did happen was the beginning. We all agreed however, strong regulation of the banking industry and short term nationalization sounds like a necessity.


Lindy | Monday February 23, 2009 07:26 am 98
In response to klynn @ 75

Oh, well done!


Ann in AZ | Monday February 23, 2009 07:26 am 99
In response to barbara @ 84

2008 was the first year I didn’t end up in the donut hole. I solved it by 1) getting some drugs from my drs. offices. Free samples, and sometimes they have coupons they can give you. Coupons saved me $20 the last time I went for drugs. But my #2) quit Walgreens and go to Walmart! was really the main reason I stayed out of the donut hole. Do not believe it when the Walgreens ad says you pay the same copay no matter where you go, because the gross costs is what causes the trouble.


prostratedragon | Monday February 23, 2009 07:26 am 100

I think we’ve just slipped into the twilight zone.

(Therefore, I think I’ll have to bolster my semiweekly eggs&bacon with some Red Mill oat bran cereal. Or maybe it’s just the prospect of today’s wind chill.)


foothillsmike | Monday February 23, 2009 07:27 am 101
In response to Redshift @ 86

The part that says you cannot negotiate with pharmecutical companies tells the tale of who was in charge of the bill writing. Secondly the more plans and companies involved the more sales people, CEOs, COOs, CFOs and stockholder groups that need to be supported by the plans.


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 07:27 am 102
In response to klynn @ 97

And by the way, no one I talked to wants to privatize SS but they really want health care reform.


cbl2 | Monday February 23, 2009 07:28 am 103

Good Morning Christy and Firedogs,

I was originally thinking that Grover and the Bathtub Gang would flourish under Obama as Limbaugh did under Clinton . . . not so much eh ?

it will be interesting to see if…

a. Jindahl walks back his redlining schtick

or b. keeps himself in que as the next WH pinata

are ya feelin’ lucky punk ?


Millineryman | Monday February 23, 2009 07:29 am 104
In response to Redshift @ 95

I like that approach about the referees, that’s how I see it. It’s a good analogy.


otchmoson | Monday February 23, 2009 07:31 am 105

Somehow, I ‘felt’ he was a Republican free-market advocate. Taking care of Medicare (tweaking it a bit) would lead the way to healthcare ‘reform’ in the private sector via competition and other free-market models. Without expressly stating his stance, (and probably because I am pro-universal/single-payer), what I ‘heard’ was: “Don’t throw out the baby with the bathwater . . . our free-market, private-pay insurance system WORKS (not!!!).” My personal interpretation was that he was truly looking out for insurance/pharma; after all, we wouldn’t want to sacrifice these ‘beneficial’ corporations (who place profits before patients) on the altar of societal ’socialism.’ [Dingell, I felt, was aware of many of the pitfalls facing not only Medicare beneficiaries, but the uninsured and underinsured–but his voice was measured, advocating evidence-based solutions; IOW, in ’sliminess’ he couldn’t hold a candle to Leavitt . . . but he also may not have been as well-heard.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:31 am 106
In response to Ann in AZ @ 99

You are totally right. Sad, isn’t it? Best tactic for anyone dealing with Part D (once it’s understood that what brings you to the dreaded donut hole) is to call pharmacies and compare their gross price. They’re very accommodating about that. It’s stunning to look at the difference. And non-generics are the total deal-breakers. Sometimes they’re essential, but deal-breakers all the same.

If pups are approaching Medicare age, invest some time in really understanding the donut hole phenom, because it’s a huge problem.


Redshift | Monday February 23, 2009 07:33 am 107
In response to barbara @ 84

As I recall, what actually happened was that they were told by the White House that it had to cost no more than a certain amount (purely for PR purposes, of course, since the administration ended up suppressing the honest assessments of the cost.) They knew that having it just cut off at the high end would be politically disastrous — a health benefit that pays for everyone but the people who need it most — and just raising the low end or making people pay more out of pocket would make it immediately clear to everyone that they were getting screwed.

So rather than take the answer that was obvious to anyone who was trying to create an effective program rather than an artificial political victory and tell the White House it can’t be done for that amount, they created a structure that was designed not to avoid screwing people, but simply to hide the fact until after the next election, at least. (Whether they actually planned to then declare the whole thing an “un-conservative” big-government program and claim that true Republicans had nothing to do with it, or if that was just improvised, I wouldn’t care to guess.)


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:33 am 108
In response to cbl2 @ 103

Seems to me the Party of Privilege is grooming Pawlenty for his 2012 run. Lord knows we don’t want him here in MN any more, but druther have him here than in that big ol’ house in DeeCee that has just been exorcised on account of the previous occupant.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 07:34 am 109
In response to klynn @ 75

Sounds like it was a fantastic discussion all around — great work. And I sure hope that the women’s husband makes that connection with the fella who offered his business card — more of that, please.

The anger-feeding ratings mongers like Rush and Hannity are really insidious. As are the O’Reilly’s and Kudlows. We need to do a much better job at pushback, and I’ve come to believe that the one-on-one personal stuff like you did, klynn, is the most effective way by far. Good on ya for speaking up!


Redshift | Monday February 23, 2009 07:36 am 110
In response to klynn @ 97

Awesome!


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:36 am 111

OT: Does anyone know….is this the day when K Rove is called to testify?


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 07:37 am 112
In response to RevBev @ 111

The 23rd of Feb.


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:37 am 113
In response to Redshift @ 107

Interesting. Thanks. And it’s still hidden, because until folks reach the donut hole, many (most?) don’t know what that really means with respect to ponying up their own dollars or going without meds for the rest of the year.


Christy Hardin Smith | Monday February 23, 2009 07:37 am 114

Ooops — hit reply too quickly — which is to say, yes, supposed to be today. *g*


Redshift | Monday February 23, 2009 07:38 am 115
In response to Adie @ 1

BTW, I suspect Pawlenty was deliberately using the non-word “foundational” instead of “fundamental” because he didn’t want to get anywhere near “fundamentalist.”


Ann in AZ | Monday February 23, 2009 07:42 am 116
In response to barbara @ 106

I did the research. Walmart will always be low. Walgreens will always be high. I hear that you should really check Target for prices also; they may be a strong competitor. I’d also try CVS. The only pharmacy that could not tell me how much drugs I would order would cost is the one that the Insurance company recommended for a mail-order deal. I used them briefly, found it to be a complete rip-off (express scripts), resented the way they did business (by keeping me blind and stupid!) and decided local pickup from Walmart or a similar discounted price type store. The legislation is a sham, a scam, and those that concocted it ought to be ashamed!


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:42 am 117

Thanks for the “PS”; I was trying to figure out what day it is…and also what it will take to get me off to work;) Thanks. Will be interesting, I guess.


sadlyyes | Monday February 23, 2009 07:48 am 118
In response to klynn @ 97

time for some FIRESIDE CHATS Mr.President!!!!


barbara | Monday February 23, 2009 07:48 am 119
In response to Ann in AZ @ 116

Ashamed? Responsible and ashamed? What a quaint concept. /s

I have a CVS bias, having read somewhere, sometime that CVS pharmacist(s) were being allowed to refuse filling birth control med prescriptions. Haven’t done due diligence to check current status of that. Even so…


sadlyyes | Monday February 23, 2009 07:49 am 120
In response to Ann in AZ @ 116

costco..isvery good and they mailit toyou for free


klynn | Monday February 23, 2009 07:50 am 121

Redshift and Lindy too,

I have a friend who is an editor who takes Rush and Hannity on quite a bit. When she ends up the focus of their hate talk, she wears it like a badge of honor because it confirms her written stances are on target. Her whole family is so proud when her name and writings come up on their shows as their “punching bag” material! What she loves, is that her “common sense” views get read on the air no matter how much they try to spin or twist them.


sadlyyes | Monday February 23, 2009 07:51 am 122

sadlyyes | Monday February 23, 2009 07:52 am 123

they are inciting some bad stuff


RevBev | Monday February 23, 2009 07:52 am 124
In response to klynn @ 121

We also are proud of her…usually Hannity just finds a way to “out scream” anyone who disagrees with him, overtalk them, and/or hangup on them….no discussion there. Good for your friend.


Neil | Monday February 23, 2009 08:23 am 125

Republicans are fond of selling the scary idea that “It could always get worse and it will… if you follow their prescription. Don’t submit to the devastation!”


Neil | Monday February 23, 2009 08:25 am 126

ThisWeek on economic policy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJoWxjQCksg


Jkat | Monday February 23, 2009 08:27 am 127
In response to Ann in AZ @ 116

speakin’ of walgreens .. i have three meds for RA .. they cost me 100$ a month at walgreens [for all three] .. i switched to a local food store’s pharma and the total price dropped to 35$ … that’s 65$ bucks a month less .. walgreens prices are way too high .. imo


Ann in AZ | Monday February 23, 2009 08:33 am 128
In response to Jkat @ 127

My findings, exactly! This is my point! Find out if you are with the lowest cost pharmacy in your area. It’s almost a guarantee that Walgreens will not be it.


perris | Monday February 23, 2009 09:40 am 129
In response to Millineryman @ 87

If you over regulate to the point where you strangle business and lifestyle then that a failure also IMHO.

but it doesn’t need to be a “careful” ballance, it needs to insure industry is not costing the public more then they provide

if industry is going to pour their cancer into our water we don’t need to be careful we just need to make them pay their own bills, if they are causing cars to explode becuase bumpers don’t match we need to address that, if they are forcing more people out of work then they are employing we need to regulate that

this country is not for the purpose of profit it is for the purpose of the coommon good, we can make profit so long as the common good is served, once it is not that industry must face regulation

obviously too much regulation is counter productive but we don’t simply end or reduce regulation, we revisit regulations we think are counter productive and we formulate the proper method of getting “common good” out of the industry, if it can’t be done that industry must be abolished


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